I have seen a lot of news recently on states ceding from the Nation. My Facebook feed has been filled with news links, and commentary on it. Lots of commentary. It seems that this issue like many further empowers the class warfare mentality of Americans. I have seen a clear line drawn in the sand. Most people ,besides some of my truly libertarian and anarchist friends, picked a side and are defending their side. I decided I needed to say something about it. I really don’t want to, I though the politics would go away after the election. The more of politics i encounter the more I lean towards anarchy.
Angry Nation
I checked at the time of writing this and petitions have come in from all 50 states. Nearly 750,000 citizens signed various petitions for the states. Texas alone has over 100,000 making it the most popular petition on the Site. Followed by a recount of the election with half as many lol. Even though I have heard lots of anger directed at the petitions the counter petition, To deport everyone that signed one, has only received 20 thousand petitions. Which I find to be dumb. You can’t deport someone out of their country of citizenship. Maybe exile them but to where? What this all adds up to me is a divided country and an angry one.
Response?
To get a response from the White House you must get 25K signatures in 30 days. At this time seven states, including my state Tennessee, has reached that mark. Meaning that the White house will have to respond to the petitions. I did not sign the petitions. Ill cover why not in a bit. I will admit to being curious how the government will respond to close to one million pissed off Americans that no longer wish to be in the union. How can it tactfully tell people to fuck off it ain’t happening. Cause in essence they are. In no way will they peacefully grant secession. The government never gives up power nor taxes. With these petitions getting serious attention though I’m sure they are giving it serious thought.
My thoughts
I am very intrigued by the petitions to cede. It makes me wonder if more people are waking up to the terrible path we are on with the economy heading off a cliff. I hope so, but think their efforts would be better served in other ways. Secession is not going to happen. At least not peacefully. The last time a state ceded it lead to the civil war. The states that already have enough petitions just happen to all be southern states. I don’t think that a second civil war is coming, but to think it’s impossible would be folly. How much further would the country need to be divided before violence starts. How much more can the government take from us before talk of secession become serious? Why did I not sign? Mostly I think it’s pointless. Asking the government to let you leave the union is pointless. I also have no doubt that there is a list of everyone that signed. Could they be considered domestic terrorists? Under the NDAA probably so. I’ll just try to stay off that list for now.Although I do not think this will go anywhere I am interested in seeing how it plays out and how things go from here.
‘May you live in interesting times’
Are you for secession? Think the secessionist are traitors? Or are you in the middle somewhere? Let me know in the comments!
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Secession is not going to happen, nor it fiscally possible for a state like Texas due to the demand of federal funding. Also, lets say they did get their way. Taxes would go through the roof there, a change that they were having a problem with anyway
I don’t think it can happen. Texas would be the only one that could possibly do it. Texas has a balanced budget and is the 15 largest economy in the world. The US would never let all that tax money go away.
I did not vote for anyone in the election because I saw it as useless. But as a citizen, I am resigned to abide by election results and Obama won. I have to live with it. If Romney had won, I would have to live with it. So does everyone else. The online petitions are meaningless. They are not an official part of our government system. While the White House may have a voluntary policy of responding to petitions that receive 25k signers withing 30 days, they are under no legal obligation to do anything about them. The dissidents are angry they lost the election. We have a democratic election system. It may be broken in that we have a narrow selection of candidates pre-chosen for us by a corrupt party system fueled by corporate money. But in the end we do get a vote and then we abide by the results. A request to secede can not come from random individuals signing a petition. We have elected representatives and state governments. Only a state can make the official request to secede. It would have to be passed through the state house and senate then signed by the state government .. because even secession must be done through rule of law and majority vote. While 750,000 signers seems like a big number .. it is .002 % of the US’s population of 312 million. An individual can secede .. its called renouncing your US citizenship and it’s one of the question on the gun purchase form. You don’t want to be a part of the US anymore? You give up your 2nd amendment rights too.
.24 %
Richard thanks for the correction .. I forgot to move the decimal over 2 places .. still the point was it is a very small percentage of total population.
I don’t think it will happen either. All this does is seperate us more. We should find common ground and ban together as US citizens. This is OUR country! Stick it out and fight for it!
I don’t think it will happen, but I also believe that it is possible. I don’t think a lot of the population fully realizes the implications of it if it were to happen. Think of how many people, agencies, and entities receive some form of payment from the federal government. On one hand it would be interesting to see how a state could perform without federal burden.
Doesn’t the constitution say the states should basically govern themselves, why not work on that. A lot of the things the are mad about the Feds shouldn’t be meddling with anyway.
Some “real” music from…ahem…my era that pretty much sums up my feelings on Dear Leader aka The Big O and his impending disaster of an empire: http://youtu.be/-Oh8K5tTcig
ANNNNNNNNND THIS! http://youtu.be/PJRZ-s6Lq-o
Good one hank! Love Black Flag!
First of all, it won’t happen. Here’s a nice link for you to show you why it’s all pretty much BS: http://www.cracked.com/quick-fixes/why-E28098anti-obama-states-secede21E28099-story-lie/
Second, there is going to come a time when the federal government along with the state and local governments of several states will not be able to meet their financial obligations. Bankruptcy and subsequent civil unrest will occur. To what extent is hard to say, but this is a pretty realistic scenario: http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2012/09/03/bracken-when-the-music-stops-how-americas-cities-may-explode-in-violence/
When that happens, when we take a dive similar to that of the USSR in 1991, it will be interesting to revisit this discussion. The U.S. has been divided since its inception. There has only really been a strong sense of national unity in the years following WWII. And even then North and South had their own identities and an uneasy relationship. But at least the old people had respect for one another.
When you’re angry but have respect for your opponent, you work things out. When there’s no respect, when all opposing political views are “stupid,” when all those people who think you’re evil and full of hatred go to suck on the government teat and find it’s dry…
Interesting times indeed.
Asking for secession is in itself a confirmation of their “authority” over you.
Wow such great comments! Thanks everyone.
Not to split hairs, but I think the term bankruptcy, in regards to our Fed/state governments is over/misused. When some one or entity files bankruptcy, they are asking for government protection from creditors. So technically, our government cannot file bankruptcy on behalf of itself. Insolvency (the more accurate description of our national plight) simply means that debts owed are beyond one’s ability to pay. There’s been plenty written on that subject, indicating that it the case for our US government. There is no way the debts we owe as a nation can ever be paid back – we are already insolvent! No one in the government or press will really admit it.
The apparent solution is to just keep printing more money, which will ultimately result in massive inflation. An excellent example of this can be found in not to distant history… when Hitler became the German peoples’ hero, by reigning in out-of-control inflation/money printing that had escalated, following WW1. He found a following by tapping into the place where it hurt at the time – their pockets. We all know what happened next.
Let’s just hope China doesn’t decide to call in some loans any time soon!
Here’s a quick history on secession in the past and why it won’t work today.
Prior to 1861 each state had its militia. There was no real centralized military, per-se. If there was trouble, the militias from and around the affected states got together and took care of it. When the South decided to secede, each of the CSA had a representative government and an army that was primarily loyal to the home state and answered to the state government. Each state thought of itself as an independent nation, more or less. They were also in their home states to begin with. So when North and South mobilized, the men from New York had to go meet up with the men from Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, etc. to create the Union army. Same for the South.
People seem to forget that the CSA was, by all definitions, an independent nation with defined borders, a government, a military, etc. The fact that the North didn’t recognize their sovereignty doesn’t make it less so by the definition of sovereignty. Both sides went to war and the victor defined the future.
Fast forward to today. We are no longer state-centric in thought or deed. Even our state militias are called “National Guard.” There is more loyalty to the federal than to the state government at almost every level.
There was a chance once for this sort of thing to occur, and it did, but it cannot happen again. It’s a logistical impossibility.
Secession permission won’t happen, and as someone mentioned, States have to do this in a long drawn out process. And any state legislator that introduced that bill would be scorned and mocked by (fill in blank)and afraid they’d loose their seat come election day.
My family has been here since the American Revolutionary War, with more of us serving our country than not.
I took the Oath and served, but I didn’t give that up because my service ended. I’m here to stay. I’ve survived much worse as civilian and a Gunner. I’ll do what i can and have done to make it till things get better or worse, but won’t turn on anyone until they turn on me. Everyone knows what i mean…and i mean it. Meanwhile we must stick together and keep surviving at life.
God Bless OUR Republic
God Bless OUR Republic
Exactly.